My child invited a coeliac friend for tea, with Nicky Chilvers – Food For Kids Podcast episode 10

Joanne Roach (00:13)

Hello and welcome to the Food for Kids podcast. I'm Joanne from the Foodies. Today is the first in a regular series that I am loosely calling the "Help! My Child's Bringing Someone Home for Tea" series, which is my way of getting across some of the basics about allergies and special diets for those of you who don't have special diets yourself but want to be able to be inclusive for those children who do.

to cover a range of diets with just enough information for you to feel confident that you could have a go at having people over to your house without worrying about getting everything wrong. The first in this series is for children who need a gluten free diet either because they have coeliac disease or just because they react badly to gluten. I think this is one of the ones that frightens people a lot because like dairy it's in a lot of foods that you wouldn't immediately think of.

So for this one I asked Nikki Chilvers from Gluten Free Little Cook to come and help. Nikki's a mom to two teenagers, one of whom has coeliac disease. It was a shock diagnosis in 2018 and there seemed to be very little support for parents to understand the disease and help their child adapt. So the only way to help her child was to just research and learn about a gluten free diet and do it fast. So Nikki then wrote a book helping parents from her own experience so they didn't have to the same struggles.

has a book and online course for parents to learn about their child's diagnosis, a book for younger children and one for teenagers. I think it's a helpful and reassuring interview with some practical suggestions, so here we go.

Joanne Roach (01:38)

So Nikki, I know since your daughter was diagnosed a few years back, you've kind of made it your mission to help other parents to find information because you found it so difficult to find the information yourself. But today I really wanted to look at the parents of children who don't have celiac, but who might have a friend who does

because I know we all get very scared when other people's children have got allergies, we all want to do the right thing. And we also obviously want children with celiac to be able to join in with everything and not have people scared off from inviting them to things.

Nicky Chilvers (02:06)

Exactly, yeah, it's really scary.

Joanne Roach (02:09)

So first of all, for people who have like a vague idea that celiac disease is something to do with gluten, but they don't really understand the difference between that and just being a bit intolerant or sensitive. Can you explain briefly sort of what it is and why it is really important to really avoid gluten in their diet?

Nicky Chilvers (02:25)

Yes, many people think that avoiding gluten is cutting out bread, cakes and pasta and it's so much more. There's so much more involved. And what you need to do is remove everything that covers within gluten, which is barley, rye, oats, wheat and spelt. And whilst that falls under wheat, it's often something that people forget because they think it's an old grain, it'll be fine. So you need to cut all of those things out.

and have an incredible amount of cleanliness about everything and mind cross contamination. you know, gluten. It doesn't hide in the UK, but it's in food, it's in drink, it's in chocolate and sweets. So it's everywhere. And it can even be in ice cream, which is what kids want to eat most of the time.

Joanne Roach (03:08)

And so if a child who has celiac disease comes into contact with small trace amounts of gluten, how does it affect them How is it different for a child with celiac?

Nicky Chilvers (03:18)

Well, every child is different. Everybody's reactions are different, which is why it's such a hard disease to diagnose. But one little crumb or somebody serving something with gluten on it can just make them incredibly poorly. I can only judge it on my child. Within six to eight hours, she gets a tummy ache. And then last time, because she hadn't eaten gluten for a very long time.

she had more adverse reactions and she actually had projectile vomiting for 20 minutes every four hours. So everybody reacts differently, they might suddenly be sick, they might suddenly be sleepy, they might have to go to the toilet, you just don't know. Everybody is so very different, which is what makes it such a hard disease to diagnose in the first place.

Joanne Roach (04:02)

So we definitely want to avoid that if we're inviting somebody over for tea. So like you've kind of hinted at there's a lot of hidden gluten in things you wouldn't expect. like we would have thought of pizza, toast, yeah, maybe cakes and ⁓ you know, biscuits and stuff. Maybe we'd have thought about the breading on like nuggets. But like what other weird things is the gluten that you wouldn't have expected there to be gluten in?

Nicky Chilvers (04:18)

Yes.

Yes.

Sometimes it's in sausages, a lot of the sausages now don't have it but because wheat is such a big filler you've got to read the labels to make sure that they're safe. You know Heinz baked beans, they're absolutely safe and they used to have pork sausages in which were great as well and they were safe but they've changed the recipe, they're now using Richmond sausages which have wheat in them so they're now a no-go and they were really handy to have as a backup tea if your child was going somewhere, so just give her this tin of beans

and sausages should be happy as Larry. it doesn't necessarily hide in the UK because it's not allowed to, there has to be on the labeling. But it is in places where you just don't think. Yesterday evening I found gluten in black peppercorns.

Joanne Roach (05:08)

Yeah, I saw you had a

reel about that. I couldn't believe that. I I've seen it in things like obviously sauces and gravy mixes and things like that where you might think.

Nicky Chilvers (05:14)

Yes, stock cubes,

soy sauce, Worcester sauce, some condiments. And it's not always just there's gluten in it. If you've double dipped something or you've had it in another dish beforehand and you've put it into another jar, that's cross contamination.

Joanne Roach (05:32)

Okay, so now that we're all scared of all the things that we've got to avoid, you know, you're... ⁓ But we want to have your child for tea. So at the end of school, your child comes up and says, can this child come home for, you know, my friend come home for tea. You know, they're a celiac. What as the parent of a celiac would you want that mom or dad to do to make sure that that child was safe in their home when they come for tea?

Nicky Chilvers (05:36)

Yep. Don't have my child for tea.

Yes.

It can be done and it can be done really easily and that's the main thing. I would suggest give them all the same food and then nobody knows when they've got something that's gluten-free now. It is really much better than it used to be years ago. So I would say get some gluten-free sausages, get some gluten-free fish fingers, some gluten-free chips,  just make sure that they haven't got the wheat covering on them and a tin of baked beans. You know, what kids don't like that kind of dinner. It makes life much easier for you.

Joanne Roach (06:23)

you

Nicky Chilvers (06:25)

So you've got all those items, they're all new, that's great. Cover your baking tray with foil if you've been cooking gluten items on it before. So that's safe and clear too. And then if you were cooking anything else in your oven that had gluten, you just put it in the oven at the top and cook everything and serve everything with clean utensils onto clean plates. Everybody's a winner.

Joanne Roach (06:46)

Okay, so better to go down the road of buying things that you know are going to be gluten free that say so on the packaging and then start with completely clean cooking equipment and just isolate that rather than trying to have gluten ingredients for one child and gluten free for another and then try not to get them mixed together

Nicky Chilvers (06:58)

Yes.

Yeah,

absolutely. It just makes it easy. It takes the pressure off the mum who's hosting. It takes the pressure off the parent who's got the celiac child making sure that everything is OK. If you've got, you know, all of the items are labeled gluten free. Tesco's finest sausages are gluten free and a lot of the Sainsbury's ones are as well. But you just want to make sure.

that everybody's got the same because then you're not worried about fingers going in. Everybody's washed their hands before tea so everybody's clean and then if the fingers happen to go in and pick up a sausage which they shouldn't but you know everybody's got clean fingers

Joanne Roach (07:31)

you

Nicky Chilvers (07:39)

I mean most people are pretty good washing the cutlery etc it's been through the dishwasher it's going to be fine Clean plates, clean utensils, clean glass, make sure that they only have that one glass that they're drinking from. If you're having Coca-Cola just check the label on that because supermarket brand Coca-Cola has often got barley in it.

Joanne Roach (07:44)

Okay.

Right.

And when your daughter was a lot younger, you know, I'm thinking like, primary age, would you have liked the parent to have given you a call and asked for any advice beforehand? Or was it much nicer for you if they just cracked on and did this stuff

Nicky Chilvers (08:14)

No, it needs to have a conversation first because you need to make sure that they understand all the little foibles that comes with cross-contamination and celiac disease and it helps just make sure that your child is going to be safe. Then they're not going to be worried either. ⁓ I had a great friend who had a birthday party and she made sure everything was gluten-free and she even made sure that she used the right chocolate because

Joanne Roach (08:16)

Okay.

Nicky Chilvers (08:39)

Cadbury's, can't use a bar of Cadbury's, but you can use chocolate buttons. So she made the crispy cakes with those. So you've got to have a conversation first and make sure that they understand.

Joanne Roach (08:44)

Mm-hmm.

Okay, so that scenario where they come out of school and they say, can so-and-so come home for tea? The best scenario would be to say, I've gone and got these things, call the parent, this is what I'm thinking of doing, does this seem right to you? And just run that by them. That would be like your best case scenario.

Nicky Chilvers (09:05)

Absolutely, yeah. You just want to make sure that everything ticks and you check the label, that they're comfortable and that your child is comfortable too.

Joanne Roach (09:14)

great. you've mentioned some really good ideas like the packaged gluten free convenience foods Great, because they're all self-contained. Are there any other things that are quite easy to get right if that isn't a good option for your family?

Nicky Chilvers (09:26)

Yeah,

gluten free pasta. You can use that too and sort of make a quick sauce with some tomato passata and add some cheese. Now what you need to mind there is that you are using gluten free pasta. You're using a clean saucepan that you've washed out. Obviously clean utensils to give it a stir. With gluten free pasta, you don't need to put oil in the water. You do just need to make sure it's added to boiling water and you give it a stir and then keep stirring on and off because otherwise it does have a tendency.

Joanne Roach (09:52)

Okay.

Nicky Chilvers (09:56)

tendency to clump plenty of salt you know the water should be as salty as the sea and then drain it quickly and serve it quickly because it once it's cooked it's good and you cook it two minutes under and then it works well yeah

Joanne Roach (10:08)

Okay cool so that gives us some options then so we've got kind

of the fish fingers, sausages, beans, make sure the chips haven't got a coating on that's kind of your chippy meal and then we've got a pasta and sauce meal that should cover what 90 % of kids that might come for tea.

Nicky Chilvers (10:18)

yes exactly or

well exactly or if need be a gluten-free pizza as long as everything's got gluten free on it and or the ingredients read safe then that's you know run it by the parent and you're good to go

Joanne Roach (10:36)

Brilliant, okay that sounds much more reassuring than I was thinking it might be Before I go I think you're setting up like a membership for parents with children with celiac is that right?

Nicky Chilvers (10:45)

Yes,

So yes, it's launching ⁓ probably the end of July now by the time I'm finished, maybe a bit earlier. But it's a place where mums can come into. There's going to be videos, there's going to be downloads. It's a place where you just get loads of information if you're feeling unsure of stuff. And then there'll be a monthly surgery. I don't want to call it surgery, but I haven't come up with a better word yet.

So I'm really looking forward to it.

Joanne Roach (11:08)

That sounds brilliant. And I'll put the details in the show notes of where people can get hold of you.

Joanne Roach (11:17)

think that approach of just serving everyone the same food, getting packaged things where you can check the label and making sure everything is cooked together in clean pans with clean utensils is really easy to follow and definitely speaking to their parent to see if you've got everything covered. So for example, you might not have thought of that suggestion that Nikki mentioned of putting food that goes in the oven above other foods. That way nothing can possibly fall off a higher tray or rack and cross contaminate all that carefully prepared tray of food below.

So hope this has been useful.

know that the friends that I have who have coeliac children find it really stressful when their children go somewhere new to eat, so I hope this will help you to help one of them.

In fact, when I told my email list that this was one of the episodes coming up, one of my subscribers, Amy, emailed back to say that as the mom of a six-year-old with coeliac she was really pleased with anything that raises this kind of awareness. She also added a very cool tip for anyone listening who does have a coeliac child. She bought a cheap mini air fryer that she takes to play centres to prevent cross-contamination. I thought that was both a great tip, but also really brought home to me how hard parents of children with allergies have to work.

to that their children don't miss out on opportunities that we take for granted. So hopefully this series will help a little to skill us all up to be a bit more confident including everyone. Okay, so that's the end of the June episodes already. What did you think of the first month? I'd love to hear your feedback and if you possibly have a few minutes, I would love if you could give me a review on Apple podcasts or on Spotify as that obviously helps the podcast to be seen by more people. I'll put the link in the show notes to do that and I'd be so, so grateful.

Chapters

00:00 Intro ?

01:34 Interview with Nicky

11.16 Summary and Outro