How to teach kids to cook when you’re anxious about it, with Florence Rebattet – Food For Kids Podcast episode 38

Joanne Roach (00:13)

Hello and welcome to the Food for Kids podcast. I'm Joanne from the Foodies.

Today's episode is a fun one. It's a lovely conversation with Florence Rebattet from the En Cuisine cooking school about how to teach kids to cook if you're not very confident yourself. Flo has been running her cooking school in London for over 10 years and teaches children from age 3 right through to 18 how to cook from scratch with classes, holiday camps and courses.

After the birth of her son, Flo left her career as a HR manager to follow her passion for food and retrained as a chef. She realised how hard many parents find it to cook with their children, so she created hand on cooking school to inspire that next generation into a lifelong love of cooking.

Flo and I have both worked with a lot of parents who are very anxious about getting their kids into the kitchen. And Flo has lots of practical small ideas if you want to start cooking with your child but don't know where to start. So here's that interview.

Joanne Roach (01:11)

Ok so Flo, in the time that you've been teaching kids to cook at En Cuisine what are the things that you have noticed that parents seem to get the most stressed or anxious about with cooking?

Florence Rebattet (01:21)

I would say the first thing, they are really scared that the kid's gonna cut themselves. Like it's a number one, no question about it. I think the number two is a burn. They're like, my gosh, if they burn themselves. Number three is a mess. They are scared of having mess everywhere and having the kitchen dirty. And number four, I know it sounds a little bit weird, but it's a salmonella. Parents are really worried that by touching the raw chicken or the eggs, the kids will get the salmonella. So that is the four things.

Joanne Roach (01:55)

Okay so that last one probably is about their own fear of dealing with foods that can cause contamination and I guess it's needing to have some control.

Florence Rebattet (02:04)

Yes, and as I always say, we are in the UK and the eggs, I mean the chicken, got the vaccination against the salmonella. So of course, if they are organic, they don't get the vaccination, right? But even the free range eggs, they got the vaccination. So your chances of having the salmonella is quite low, but you still have to be careful. When the kids are cracking an egg and they have eggs everywhere because you have a big chance that the kids gonna break the shell and then you will have shells everywhere. I always say not a big deal. Ask them to wipe the fingers or wash their hands when you are completely done with the eggs and make sure they don't put the fingers in the mouth and you explain them “If you lick your fingers, you might have a stomach bug, you know?” And you touch your tummy and suddenly they can understand that, “I can have a tummy bug. So, okay, I won't put my fingers in my mouth.”

Joanne Roach (03:00)

And in terms of things like cuts and burns what sort of things do you do with children to make sure that cuts and burns don't happen?

Florence Rebattet (03:03)

Mm-hmm. So when it's my own child, when he was little, not anymore, I used to go around him, because he's right-handed, so my right hand was helping him with the knife and my left hand was holding the vegetables or fruits. And like that, I could do the motion with him.

Joanne Roach (03:22)

Okay so, for people who just listen on audio, standing behind them almost like you're puppet mastering from behind.

Florence Rebattet (03:30)

It's like, think about like, it's like a muppet and you need to make the muppet moving, right? So you do the same with your child. You try to help him or her to understand the motion. If it's too tricky for you, as I always say, you go to the playground. There is a big chance that in the playground you had a seesaw, okay? And the seesaw, think about the motion of the seesaw. Suddenly the kids really understand what it is. Yeah, I play on the seesaw. And I'm like, okay, do the same with the knife. See, saw, see, saw. Because if you are like, go back forward, back forward, they just don't understand. But if you say, hey, when you go to the playground, you see the seesaw, do the same with the knife. And suddenly they understand the motion.

Joanne Roach (04:17)

I think that's the thing as adults, we can't remember what we didn't know, when we didn't know how to cook.

Florence Rebattet (04:21)

Yeah, it's this. Plus, as I always said, show them how to hold a knife. Because we teach them how to hold a knife for eating. And it's a different way for cooking. So explain them, show them, take the knife and say, hey, this is how you hold a knife when you eat. But when you cook, this is how you hold a knife. Because for us, it's completely normal. Every day we cook. So we even don't realize. But for the children, it's not. When you show them, they're like, gosh, we don't hold the knife in the same way. Instead of saying, my gosh, you're gonna cut yourself. Be careful, be careful. You put so much stress on the kids. And just show them nicely, slowly, and they will understand.

Joanne Roach (05:04)

Okay, I can imagine people now listening to this and then coming off and picking up a knife and kind of going, I'm cooking, I'm eating, I'm cooking to try and see the difference because it's true, it is different, but you don't think of it as being different.

For a parent who's listening or we also have people listening who are teachers or childcare workers who then want to do cooking with groups of children, what advice would you give them about how to get started, especially if they're a bit nervous or they're not a good cook themselves even?

Florence Rebattet (05:27)

Yeah, it's fine. You know, we all need to learn. As I always said, even if I'm a chef for so many years, I keep learning every day So I would say the first thing, explain the step-by-step recipe, but just don't go from A to Z. Like you're gonna lose the children. So if your first thing is, you need to wash the vegetables, okay tell them that. Go and wash the vegetables then they can do it.

If you do a courgette or cucumber you know it's a round surface very not easy to cut and it's wobbly. Chop the courgette or the cucumber half and say to the kids flat surface on flat surface your fingers are safe and they will realize that the part of the cucumber which is flat has to be on the chopping board and then it doesn't move because you can be a little bit in stress if you have the cucumber moving around or the apple. But flat surface on flat surface, your fingers are safe. Keep that in mind.

Joanne Roach (06:31)

I love that because if you're doing an onion, again, instinctively know as an adult, you halve it, put it down with the flat surface But we don't really necessarily think it through when we're trying to describe it to somebody else.

Florence Rebattet (06:42)

Yes, it's like the eggs, a lot of kids think that if they crack the eggs, they're gonna kill the little chick inside. And the fact that you explain that eggs that we can eat, there is no chicken inside, like there is no risk about it. Suddenly the pressure is down because so many kids are like my gosh if I crack the egg I won't have the chicken and I know darling there is no chicken in the egg

Joanne Roach (07:07)

Yes, they're not fertilised, it's fine.

Florence Rebattet

But they don't understand what it is to fertilize an egg.

Joanne Roach (07.15)

Anything else in terms of basic skills? What's a really good way to get across some of the basic skills?

Florence Rebattet (07:20)

Honestly, go to the grocery shopping with your kids. Take them with you. Show them the vegetables. If you do it online, and I do it, don't think I'm a perfect one going every day on the grocery shopping. Nope. I used to take my son with me, sitting in front of the computer or the phone, and telling him, okay, can you spot the courgette? Can you spot the cucumber? Because it's very similar. So that is the first step.

If you have a recipe book, it doesn't have to be an expensive one. You can just take a magazine from the supermarket, just go online and say, what do you like, darling? Most of the time it will be pasta and mashed potatoes, right? We all know that. Okay, go with the pasta. They like that. And you're like, hmm, what about the mushrooms? Think about do they like mushroom? Chances are it's a no, But if they watch a movie, like most of the kids know Peppa Pig as a cartoon. And I'm like, look little George, he's eating spaghetti, does he eat spaghetti with tomato sauce? Yeah. And what about making the tomato sauce? Okay. Don't buy fresh tomatoes because it will cost you a fortune and the taste will be so-so, especially during the winter. So buy a passata and then you're like, hmm, we need to bring flavors. Do you think George enjoy this little pasta because it's just tomato sauce like this? No, it's because mummy pig put some little courgette, little mushrooms. So let's do like George and Peppa Pig and we're gonna chop, chop, chop and put them in the tomato sauce. And suddenly they're like, yeah, I want to be like Peppa Pig or George Pig, you know?

Joanne Roach (09:01)

Yeah, that's good. So one of the things that I quite often talk about in The Foodies project is that I think a lot of people think if they're going to cook with their kids, they have to get their child into the kitchen and make a whole recipe with them. And it's going to be stressful all the way through. It's going to take twice as long. Everyone's going to be hungry by dinner time. The kitchen's going to look like a hurricane's been through it.

Florence Rebattet (09:11)

Mmm.Yes!

Joanne Roach (09:20)

And it's a Tuesday night and we've got to get to football after tea or whatever but just ask them to come in and can you just please chop that carrot while I do something else and then they go back to whatever they're doing getting ready for football or you know watching the telly or whatever but that just over time they layer up these little moments of building their confidence

Florence Rebattet (09:38)

Yeah, go slowly, slowly, right? like you said, it doesn't have to be a full recipe, it's too much, especially if the kids are very little. Even the teenagers, you know, sometimes I just, no, I don't want to cook with you, right? So you just go slowly, like you said, carrots might be hard for the kids because it's a hard one, but you can be like, ⁓ we need to make pasta, do you know how to make pasta? And they don't realize that they have to boil the water. So it can be that simple like that. Take the saucepan, put the water, and by the way, tell them to put salt in the water because you need to bring the salt at the beginning of the cooking to make sure you get the flavors. And it could be just this. Thank you for your help. ⁓ and the child will realize that it is part of the cooking process.

Joanne Roach (10:20)

Yeah, that's a great idea because so many kids really love pasta. So yeah, they need to know how to cook pasta.

Florence Rebattet (10:32)

Yeah, or if they like garlic bread, If you buy it already made, fine, just ask them, do you know how to switch on the oven to make the garlic bread? Hey, most of the time it's a big no. So you just take the child and say, okay, you turn this button on the right and you put it at this temperature and then you need to wait to preheat the oven. And they didn't know that you need to preheat the oven before putting your garlic bread in it. And when you open the oven, you just tell them, careful, when you open the door, the steam will go out and it will be really hot. So when you open the door, always go on the side. ⁓ And you suddenly involve them in the cooking process.

Joanne Roach (11:16)

Yeah, now that's brilliant because that's all of the things that then when people start cooking and they haven't learned how to cook, they follow a recipe and at the end of it, it doesn't turn out right. It's all these small things, isn't it? Like, well, I cooked it for 15 minutes. Yeah, but the oven wasn't preheated or I made the pasta for however many minutes it said, but it doesn't kind of taste right. Well, you didn't salt the water. So it's those sorts of things where people lose their confidence

Florence Rebattet (11:36)

No, exactly. even if you are not confident in cooking, read the recipe, but trust your gut. if the recipe said put five garlic cloves, and you can't stand the taste of the garlic. Okay, put a little bit of more onions it's fine. Just try it, trust yourself. When they say one teaspoon of cumin, okay, but you love the cumin. Okay, but put more.

The kids also can be involved by just testing the recipe in the process, you know? I'm making the tomato sauce. Come, do you want to taste it? You take the spoon, you blow it. And realize that, (blow) it can be super hot if I lick the spoon straight. So you are teaching them that you need to blow on the spoon before tasting the food. And that is part of the cooking process.

And it's like cleaning. Cleaning is part of the cooking process. And kids love putting everything in the dishwasher.

So yeah, this is all my tips to get the kids involved in the kitchen.

Joanne Roach (12:43)

When we were recording that I really enjoyed Flo's obvious enthusiasm and how she really gets into the heads of the children she works with and she tries to see the world how they do. Even if we think we're rubbish at cooking, by the time we have kids we've usually had to make food for ourselves for a while no matter how unadventurous we think it is.

And we forget all those tiny components that add up to understanding a kitchen, turning it from a place where everything is at best mysterious and wondrous and at worst scary and dangerous, into a place where you can feel competent at having a try at something. So I love Flo's approach to breaking everything down into small achievable learning points. At the time of recording this in October, Flo's school has an October half term cooking camp coming up and lots of activities for Christmas, including a chocolate workshop. So I will link to her website and socials in the show notes in case you'd like to find out more.

I'll be back on Thursday with a solo episode so I hope to see you there then and in the meantime, happy eating!

00:00 Introduction

01:11 Parents' most common fears cooking with kids

03:00 Helping children to understand knife safety

05:15 Explaining basic cooking to kids

07:20 Involving kids in kitchen basic skills

12.43 Summary and outro